And The VP Debate Winner Is...

... obviously Joe Biden. Look at these stats:

CBS Poll for Uncommitted Voters -

Who won the debate? Biden 46% Palin 21% Tied 33%

Overall image -
Biden: Improved impression: 53% - Worse opinion:5% - No change - 42%
Palin: Improved impression: 55% - Worse opinion: 14% - No change - 30

Knowledgeable about important issues -
Palin: Before debate - 43% After debate - 66%
Biden: Before debate - 79% After debate - 98%

That being said, the conservative pundits are elated that Palin didn't fall off the stage, vomit on the podium or run off in tears and since the bar was set so low, some say low enough to have to dig a ditch to set it, nothing has changed. The Republicans will insist she won even though she didn't answer the questions asked of her, choosing instead to meander into answering questions she herself posed. If by chance she did happen to answer an actual question asked by the moderator, she got it wrong. And here is where she lost the debate:

Q: Governor, you mentioned a moment ago the constitution might give the vice president more power than it has in the past. Do you believe as Vice President Cheney does, that the Executive Branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency, that it it is also a member of the Legislative Branch?

PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also.

So Ms. Hockey Mom didn't even know what the duties of the Vice President are as written under the Constitution and wants to expand those powers. She agrees with Cheney - MOTHERFUCKIN' 18% APPROVAL RATING DICK CHENEY! - when defining to which branch of government the VP office belongs. Is agreeing with Cheney the right answer? No. Here's the right answer, Mooselini:

BIDEN: Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history. The idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.

And the primary role of the vice president of the United States of America is to support the president of the United States of America, give that president his or her best judgment when sought, and as vice president, to preside over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there's a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit.

The only authority the vice president has from the legislative standpoint is the vote, only when there is a tie vote. He has no authority relative to the Congress. The idea he's part of the Legislative Branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney to aggrandize the power of a unitary executive and look where it has gotten us. It has been very dangerous.

BAM! KAPOW! THWAPP!! Everyone who's taken a high school history class knows that the separation of powers is a fundamental key of our Constitution. Everyone that is, except for Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin. Actually, Cheney probably knows but doesn't give a shit. So that leaves Palin.

And since when has it been acceptable to dismiss debate rules and announce that you're not going to answer the questions of the moderator and instead blurt out a list of memorized talking points?

PALIN: ...I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also.

If that's the point, why bother having the debate?

Is she stupid? No, of course not. Calculating. Manipulative. But not stupid. Is she out of her element? I'd have to say yes. There was nothing in that debate that made me think she would have known answers to some of those questions two weeks ago or nothing that gave me the confidence to trust her. And there was nothing that made me think twice that I may have initially misjudged her.

Best line of the night -

Biden: "So you're going to have to place -- replace a $12,000 [health insurance] plan with a $5,000 check you just give to the insurance company. I call that the 'Ultimate Bridge to Nowhere.'"


Worst line of the night - it's a tie (besides the Cheney thing).

Palin: "Your plan is a white flag of surrender in Iraq and that is not what our troops need to hear today, that's for sure. And it's not what our nation needs to be able to count on."

Palin: "Oh, yeah, it's so obvious I'm a Washington outsider. And someone just not used to the way you guys operate."

Palin: "Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again... Now doggone it, let's look ahead and tell Americans what we have to plan to do for them in the future."

Palin: "And how long have I been at this, like five weeks?"

Or you can go with any of the 'dart tootin's, 'gosh darnit's, 'Dagnabbit's, 'fiddlesticks', 'gee willikers', or 'confound it's Palin used; or the 847 times she used the word "also" to continue a run-on sentence.

I'm afraid to turn on my TV and watch Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan gush at her performance even though poll figures disagree with them. But I'm curious as to what the spin is in spite of the polls. So maybe I'll have more later unless it's too depressing to keep talking about it.



UPDATE I (9:35am): Thankfully, I missed Buchanan and Scar. Unfortunately, I caught Nancy Pfotenhauer spinning her plastic face off. But I did find this interesting.


CNN/Opinion Research: Biden 51 Palin 36
CBS: Biden 46 Palin 21
Fox: Biden 61 Palin 39


Those Fox numbers are down to 59% for Biden by 9:45am today. Here's a screenshot before Fox decides to take it down. (Click on image for full size.)



You can participate in the poll here. Scroll down to the bottom right to vote.

Also read: The Rude Pundit - What Biden Ought To Say (Rude Version)


UPDATE II (10:12am): What's with the fucking winking?!




UPDATE III (12:02pm): Here's FactCheck.Org's list on the VP debate last night.